INTERVIEW with WILLEM DE KOONING
By Stanley Somers 1979
Graduate Thesis Project Mount Royal School of Painting;
Maryland Institute College of Art, Balt., Md.
In September 1979 our graduate class was asked to submit submissions for our 2nd thesis project. I talked to fellow graduate student Don Localio about what he was going to do for his idea, and he said he had this crazy idea of interviewing De Kooning. I told him that if it happens I wanted to be involved. We agreed on it, and started to ask around the Institute who know De Kooning, and who would help us get a chance to meet him.
Well Salvitorre Scarpita told us it was a good idea, and even though him and De Kooing had been friendly (he told us a story of how Bill bought one of his pieces when Sal was really broke) he would not talk to him on our behalf. Then we contacted Grace Hartigan, and she angrily told us that it would be inappropriate and rude to bother a famous artist. De Kooning was an artist Grace revered, but Don was not having any of it, and let Grace know that on no uncertain terms he would meet and interview De Kooning.
Don had done undergraduate work at the University of Houston, Texas. There he studied with William Stout and John Alexander, in an Art Department that was heavily influenced by New York Abstract Expressionism. I believe his story was De Kooning was coming down to Texas to visit the Rothko Cathedral and was asked to visit the University of Houston’s Art Department. There Don met, and had his work critiqued by Bill. Don boosted this with stories, and pictures of him and De Kooning in his studio.
We made a plan to use whatever resources we had to find out how to get to him. Don called his professors in Texas, and I called mine Santa Barbara, California. One of my Art instructors was Paul Georges, and Paul was friends with Bill. Paul said that it was a good idea and that he regularly visited with Bill. He said he would go over there around 5:00pm after his secretary would leave, her hours were (8:30 to 4:00), and Bill was always happy to have visitors at that time because it was his old drinking hour. Bill was sober and on the wagon. Paul told me it was on us, and he would not set up a scheduled date, and he said to avoid his secretary because on no uncertain terms did she want him with unsolicited visitors. He said he liked the idea, and gave us his address and directions, but he also state it was a gamble and it was on us.
I told Don, and Don was a little apprehensive at first but then got real excited. On a cold day in November we art started the long drive from Baltimore to the Long Island sound, and then to the Hamptons. We were driving Don’s little spit fire, and because it was so cold outside Don refused to roll down the window to smoke a cigar or even spit. We talked with excitement about this visit, and were filled with anxiety and fear. When we got to De Kooning’s house, it was around 4:30, a little after his secretary left. With trepidation, we knocked on the door and sure enough Bill was there, and answered the door. We introduced ourselves and told him we were graduate students of painting at the Maryland Institute and we were hoping he would take the time to meet with us. He actually remembered Don, and then he invited us into his house and studio. His house was a beautiful modern style, with lots of glass for light in his studio. He had a large easel that actually had a crank to lower itself below floor level so he could work on really large works of art. Large drawing were strewn around the floor with newspaper he said was used to take off excess oil off his paintings. They were works of art in their own right. The painting table was well organized with bowls of paint, lots of tubes of paint and large brushes. Around the studio he had images of art from different ages, in particular early Renaissance and lots of Mondrians. I asked him why he would be drawn to Mondrian and he said even though Mondrian worked neatly, and he didn’t, he felt an affinity with him because he was a fellow Dutch artist. He talked of his technical training as a draftsman in Europe and he talked about stowing away on a ship to America. He told us how he worked in New York as a commercial artist. He talked about Gorky, Pollock, Rothko, and Klein, and their tragic loss to the world. He felt Jackson was the one who truly broke the ice to the change he experienced in art. He told us about the fire department took special efforts to protect his house and that he would give them artwork.
The we went to the living room and there stood Sal’s Sled, and Bill told us almost the same story Sal told us. He said he did not know why but he liked the sled. We sat down and he asked us if we would like some tea, and he went to the kitchen to prepare it for us, as we wandered around his art collection and books. When he came back we continued talking but this time over a large coffee table art book on his life works. He talked and talked, as we flipped through the book, about each picture. When we got to Woman I, he said that he had never finished the painting, and that they took it out of the studio before he had a chance. I asked what was not finished and he said he didn’t like the right foot. He said it just did not feel right. He did repeat his stories, particularly about Gorky and Pollock. It was getting dark and we asked if we could come back the next day and photograph his studio. He said we could if we got there by 7:00 the next morning. We knew the secretary started at 8:30 so we made sure we were on time. When we arrived Bill let us in and we photographed the studio and house, we each gave him a piece of art as thanks. As we were leaving the secretary arrived and was very upset at us being there, she told us to leave immediately.
On the way home Don and I talked non stop trying to recollect each detail of the visit. We were stoked that we pulled it off. We had met a great human being and he was great to us with graciousness, generosity, and eloquent dialogues on contemporary art. We definitely go an art education from this experience. Meeting the living man behind his great art was cathartic and transforming. The Institute was very excited we pulled off this project, and gave us a date to show case our project and photos to the whole student body in the auditorium of the Rhinehart School of Sculpture. Grace Hartigan wanted us expelled from the institute, Sal Scarpita loved that we pulled it off. In 1980 both Don and I received our MFAs.
